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they are both there today. we're going to listen to mitt romney live in just a moment. topping our political headlines, though, within the hour, president obama is scheduled to land in newport, virginia, he's on his way to williamsburg where he's preparing for tuesday. he used the radio and internet address to focus on the economy, touting the impact of the bailout. >> to let detroit go bankrupt. i bet on american work and ingenuity and three years later that bet is paying off in a big kwa. today auto sales are higher thain even about been in three years. gm is back. ford and chrysler are growing again. we've created a quart ore of a a million new jobs right here in america. >> mitt romney holding a rally in ohio. this hour. it's about to get under way. in fact, we're going get a live update from the campaign trail in just a moment. in their weekly address, republicans also talking about the economy. it was delivered by oklahoma congressional candidate mark wayne mullet. >> he gets it. republican majority in the house has passed several bipartisan common sense proposals
they are both there today. we're going to listen to mitt romney live in just a moment. topping our political headlines, though, within the hour, president obama is scheduled to land in newport, virginia, he's on his way to williamsburg where he's preparing for tuesday. he used the radio and internet address to focus on the economy, touting the impact of the bailout. >> to let detroit go bankrupt. i bet on american work and ingenuity and three years later that bet is paying off in a big...
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i say paul ryan and romney both say that, they're misinforming people because they don't have a plan. what biden said last night was 97% of the people, small business making less -- >> eric: what he said -->> -- >> bob: he said that. he was off script with what the administration is. is that what you want me to say? what i would like to say ens.t.d. of spending the whole segment talking about why biden did bad, why you guys insist on allowing these two people with no plans, with nothing but -- >> eric: wait, wait, wait. >> bob: cut it off. cut it off. cut it off. forget about it. >> eric: vice presidential debate where biden used numbers that he made up. out of thin air. not what obama did. >> eric: single cut -- >> bob: is there a single cut about ripe not explaining anything about the plan? >> brian: only thing ripe was not able to explain is loopholes and tax breaks that are going to go away. that is what he says he will do, he will negotiate it if elected. ronald reagan did not do it as a candidate. he did it as a president. how do you expect him to be bipartisan if he's not in of
i say paul ryan and romney both say that, they're misinforming people because they don't have a plan. what biden said last night was 97% of the people, small business making less -- >> eric: what he said -->> -- >> bob: he said that. he was off script with what the administration is. is that what you want me to say? what i would like to say ens.t.d. of spending the whole segment talking about why biden did bad, why you guys insist on allowing these two people with no plans,...
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tomorrow both mitt romney and president obama will be hunkered down, prepping for the next presidential debate. tuesday town hall format. i want to bring the brain trust in for a few more minutes if we can. jennifer rubin, the "washington post" there is bob, there is kevin. jennifer, i want to start with you. what more will we be talking about the morning after the debate? >> i'll give you a "new york post" kind of headline. 'bama bashed on benghazi. >> that's good. >> libya is becoming an issue, and joe biden actually opened up a couple of issues for him. you a drip, drip, drip now every day from "newsweek," from "new york times." a lot of finger-pointing going on between the state, between the intelligence community, the white house. i think the president is going to have to do some explaining. and i think mitt romney is probably going to begin to make this one of his top issues. >> kevin? >> the latest faked up scandal by the republicans, the nonscandal in benghazi. the headline is going to be signs of life, because i think president obama will show some. and at least try to contest
tomorrow both mitt romney and president obama will be hunkered down, prepping for the next presidential debate. tuesday town hall format. i want to bring the brain trust in for a few more minutes if we can. jennifer rubin, the "washington post" there is bob, there is kevin. jennifer, i want to start with you. what more will we be talking about the morning after the debate? >> i'll give you a "new york post" kind of headline. 'bama bashed on benghazi. >> that's...
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plus a look ahead to tuesday's obama-romney rematch. expectations are hay for both candidates. so will the president raise his game and can mitt romney sustain his momentum? ♪ [ male announcer ] you've reached the age where you don't back down from a challenge. this is the age of knowing how to make things happen. sowhy let erectile dysfunction get in your way? talk to your doctor about viagra. 20 million men already have. ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain; it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. side effects include headache, flushing, upset stomach, and abnormal vision. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. stop taking viagra and call your doctor right away if you experience a sudden decrease or loss in vision or hearing. this is the age of taking action. viagra. talk to your doctor. >>> we are back with more on deet baits. let's look at a clip from the economy. >> they talk about the great recession like it fell out of the sky
plus a look ahead to tuesday's obama-romney rematch. expectations are hay for both candidates. so will the president raise his game and can mitt romney sustain his momentum? ♪ [ male announcer ] you've reached the age where you don't back down from a challenge. this is the age of knowing how to make things happen. sowhy let erectile dysfunction get in your way? talk to your doctor about viagra. 20 million men already have. ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take...
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ohio is one of the key swing states for both romney and obama. both have spent a whole lot of time there talking to voters. so how are the voters receiving all that attention? cnn political editor paul steinhauser joining us now to talk about that. good morning to you what. is the story in ohio? >> reporter: ohio -- it sounds like a broken record. but these candidates keep going back to ohio. the second straight day for mitt romney. the president was just there earlier this week. here's my unofficial count here. since the start of the general election, which was usually considered early april, the president has now made 12 swings through ohio. this is the 16th swing for mitt romney. over $91 million spent by the campaigns. the party committees, the super pacs in ohio. 18 electoral votes at stake in such an important state. this is the state that put president george w. bush over the top in 2004. mitt romney really needs to win it to win the white house this time around. bruce springsteen and the former president bill clinton will be in ohio in a
ohio is one of the key swing states for both romney and obama. both have spent a whole lot of time there talking to voters. so how are the voters receiving all that attention? cnn political editor paul steinhauser joining us now to talk about that. good morning to you what. is the story in ohio? >> reporter: ohio -- it sounds like a broken record. but these candidates keep going back to ohio. the second straight day for mitt romney. the president was just there earlier this week. here's...
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and we can also tell you that both paul ryan and mitt romney were on the record yesterday about this situation down in libya, and what vice president joe biden said in thursday night's debate. the republicans believe they caught him contradicting the state department. listen to what these two republicans had to say on the trail yesterday. >> the vice president directly contradicted the sworn testimony of state department officials. he's doubling down on denial. >> this is not what leadership looks like. we need clarity, not confusion. we need accountability, and no more excuses. >>> now ohio may ultimately be the state that turns this election one way or another. as we mentioned earlier the president still holding a lead here. obviously the auto bailout a big factor alex. about one in eight jobs are related to the auto industry. the president approved that bailout of general motors and chrysler. governor romney favored a managed bankruptcy. we'll have to see if he can make up the ground with 23 days to go. as you mentioned crisscross the state today. paul ryan will head up to minneso
and we can also tell you that both paul ryan and mitt romney were on the record yesterday about this situation down in libya, and what vice president joe biden said in thursday night's debate. the republicans believe they caught him contradicting the state department. listen to what these two republicans had to say on the trail yesterday. >> the vice president directly contradicted the sworn testimony of state department officials. he's doubling down on denial. >> this is not what...
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ohio is one of the key swing states for both romney and obama. both have spent a whole lot of time there talking with voters. here's cnn's political editor paul steinhauser. >> good morning, randi. it's all about the buckeye state today. >> we need your help. we've got to win ohio. you've got to get your friends to help us win ohio. >> reporter: that's why mitt romney is spending his second straight day in ohio, where 18 electoral votes are up for grabs. mr. obama won the state four years ago. now ohio is one of the states romney really needs to turn red again in order to make it to the white house. the republican presidential nominee holds two rallies in the state today and his running mate paul ryan also campaigns separately in the buckeye state. president obama was in ohio a few days ago. next week, bruce springsteen will team up with former president clinton to stump for obama in ohio. the race for the state is very close right now. take a look at this cnn poll, a poll that averages three surveys that were conducted entirely after the first p
ohio is one of the key swing states for both romney and obama. both have spent a whole lot of time there talking with voters. here's cnn's political editor paul steinhauser. >> good morning, randi. it's all about the buckeye state today. >> we need your help. we've got to win ohio. you've got to get your friends to help us win ohio. >> reporter: that's why mitt romney is spending his second straight day in ohio, where 18 electoral votes are up for grabs. mr. obama won the...
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and there was a lot of on the economy, i really like what governor romney is saying. but on all these other issues, health care, women's issues, abortion, he seems awfully conservative. couldn't we have a combination -- gwen: no, you can't have a combination. >> it's a choice. >> wufrnt things that doyle is mentioning -- one of the things that doyle is mentioning and pollsters have suggested president obama needs to be more articulate in these debates about what his vision is. there still isn't that hurdle crossed. gwen: we'll talk about what we think the president will have to do in his -- in this debate coming up next week. in our webcast. thank you all very much. only 3 1/2 more weeks until election day. some of you are even voting now. how will you keep up? join me every night on the pbs newshour and for special coverage of the second presidential debate tuesday night in hempstead, new york. read what our panelists are writing. you can find their stories at the essential read section of our website. and next thursday at 2:00 p.m. eastern time, join me for a live c
and there was a lot of on the economy, i really like what governor romney is saying. but on all these other issues, health care, women's issues, abortion, he seems awfully conservative. couldn't we have a combination -- gwen: no, you can't have a combination. >> it's a choice. >> wufrnt things that doyle is mentioning -- one of the things that doyle is mentioning and pollsters have suggested president obama needs to be more articulate in these debates about what his vision is. there...
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joe biden continues to play offense in wisconsin friday. >> it's time romney and ryan and the republican congress take a pledge to the middle class people saying we're going to level the playing field. >> reporter: a day after a spirited vice-presidential debate. >> with all due respect that's a bunch malarkey. >> watch out, middle class, the tax bill is coming to you. >> reporter: both candidates headed back to the campaign trail. >> i feel great. >> reporter: paul ryan stopped for breakfast with his family before teaming up with mitt romney in ohio. >> there was one person on the stage with thoughtfulness who was respectful -- >> yeah! >> -- who was steady and poised. >> yeah! >> reporter: the obama campaign said the vice president walked away with the win. but friday, the white house had to defend his answer about the deadly attack in benghazi, libya. >> we weren't told they want more security. >> reporter: former security officials testified this week that they had asked for more manpower. >> he is doubling down on denial. we need to understand what happened. >> reporter: white house
joe biden continues to play offense in wisconsin friday. >> it's time romney and ryan and the republican congress take a pledge to the middle class people saying we're going to level the playing field. >> reporter: a day after a spirited vice-presidential debate. >> with all due respect that's a bunch malarkey. >> watch out, middle class, the tax bill is coming to you. >> reporter: both candidates headed back to the campaign trail. >> i feel great. >>...
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doug and mark, great to see both of you. doug, the romney/ryan plan will reduce rates like 20%. let's forget the lool hope for a moment. see the top rate go down from 35% to 28%. that's certainly not a drop, like jfk did or romney did. can 35 to 28 spark real gdp growth? >> i think we're in a very different world and quite frankly a better world. the feature they have in common, often not appreciated, these are permanent tax reforms, and they have much bigger impacts. it makes sense. a tax cut for a day, you wouldn't do much. and it would change a lot of things, the research supports that notion, an important part of this, a tax reform, permanent change that eliminates the changes. and it reduces complexity. complexity causes people to, a, waste money with tax planning and lawyers and leads to you waste business decisions on the basis of taxes, not business fundamentals and erodes faye faith in the tax system. and the combination of personal nens and getting businesses to focus on the bottom line are very big impetus for growth. >> i understand your point. it's more than just cu
doug and mark, great to see both of you. doug, the romney/ryan plan will reduce rates like 20%. let's forget the lool hope for a moment. see the top rate go down from 35% to 28%. that's certainly not a drop, like jfk did or romney did. can 35 to 28 spark real gdp growth? >> i think we're in a very different world and quite frankly a better world. the feature they have in common, often not appreciated, these are permanent tax reforms, and they have much bigger impacts. it makes sense. a...
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. >> in fairness, both obama in romney are talking about alternative ways of doing this. eliminating the deductions that an individual can take. >> romney told me $25,000 -- >> and the president has proposed to reduce the rate at which you can item yieds it. >> but romney started out at 17,000 and then to you he start of raised the cap a little bit. >> and chuck shumer threw a ball into this. we have a trillion deficit. why are we reducing tax rates at all. let's use it to our deficit reduction rather than lowering rates at the top. >> you know this as i did. when biden kept talking about raising taxes for people making a million or more as opposed to $250,000. >> that's a chuck schumer idea as well coming from new york. >> but all this should tell us is that before people go to the voting boothss, they're not going to know the answers to these questions. everyone would like to know the answers to these questions, but you have professional groups disagreeing about the economic impact of these things. so we don't really know. >> we have more clarity on the spending side wh
. >> in fairness, both obama in romney are talking about alternative ways of doing this. eliminating the deductions that an individual can take. >> romney told me $25,000 -- >> and the president has proposed to reduce the rate at which you can item yieds it. >> but romney started out at 17,000 and then to you he start of raised the cap a little bit. >> and chuck shumer threw a ball into this. we have a trillion deficit. why are we reducing tax rates at all. let's...
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>> i think that both ryan and romney need to do what they are doing right now, go to directly to the american people and give them their plan. most people need to hear something seven times before it actually sinks in. just continuing to do what they have done so far and just being very articulate. >> gregg: let me stop you there. the criticism of that plan, in terms of the approach of reducing tax marginal tax rates and increasing revenues and the cost it might add to the deficit is criticized as being non-specific. how do they respond to that? >> governor romney has laid out a framework. any time you have a plan such as this, you don't want to put all the details out there because there are negotiations that need to take place. the framework has been looked up by six different independent organizations including those from harvard and princeton. to say this plan will work. so the details don't need to be out there right now. the framework is very clear about what mitt romney and paul ryan want to do to strengthen our middle-class. >> gregg: i might say that the tax policy center wh
>> i think that both ryan and romney need to do what they are doing right now, go to directly to the american people and give them their plan. most people need to hear something seven times before it actually sinks in. just continuing to do what they have done so far and just being very articulate. >> gregg: let me stop you there. the criticism of that plan, in terms of the approach of reducing tax marginal tax rates and increasing revenues and the cost it might add to the deficit...
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paul ryan and joe biden were not at the top of the ticket, but the reviews were instant in both style and substance, we begin with ron mott traveling with the campaign in ohio, good evening, ron. >> reporter: brian, good evening to you, as you can see behind me, governor mitt romney behind me in front of a very big crowd, about 8500 people, we're told. and we can tell you there is more confidence in the air around the republican ticket tonight, very pleased on how congressman paul ryan handled himself last night against a very seasoned debater, joe biden. reunited again after what the romney campaign says was a big win in kentucky last night, in a 90-minute marathon of disagreements over everything from social security and taxes. >> it has never been done before. >> reporter: the candidates fought over whether the obama administration dismissed security concerns at the u.s. consulate in libya. >> we were not told they wanted more security. we did not know they wanted more security. >> reporter: it was topic number one, a charged moment in the night for the wisconsin congressman. >> ro
paul ryan and joe biden were not at the top of the ticket, but the reviews were instant in both style and substance, we begin with ron mott traveling with the campaign in ohio, good evening, ron. >> reporter: brian, good evening to you, as you can see behind me, governor mitt romney behind me in front of a very big crowd, about 8500 people, we're told. and we can tell you there is more confidence in the air around the republican ticket tonight, very pleased on how congressman paul ryan...
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good afternoon to both of you. >> thank you. >> the romney campaign reportedly shifting campaign resources from another battleground state, pennsylvania to ohio. david, again, you are at that rally in youngstown today. do you see anything in the crowds that shows a new wave of support for the republican ticket? >> actually, i do. i think that there is -- ryan has actually been able to really garner a lot of enthusiasm during his events. and this morning i tracked about 14,000 people to a place that is a democratic stronghold right there in downtown youngstown. i do see people paying a lot closer attention to this race. and i'm seeing there is some movement. now obviously northeast ohio is super democratic stronghold. i think -- i mean -- >> and for folks not familiar with the geography of ohio, you're speaking primarily of cleveland? >> cleveland, akron, canton, warren, youngstown, which are all heavy democratic towns. in fact, i think that cuyahoga county, which is what cleveland was back in '08 went 70% for obama. and this is his stronghold. we actually had a recent poll that had obama u
good afternoon to both of you. >> thank you. >> the romney campaign reportedly shifting campaign resources from another battleground state, pennsylvania to ohio. david, again, you are at that rally in youngstown today. do you see anything in the crowds that shows a new wave of support for the republican ticket? >> actually, i do. i think that there is -- ryan has actually been able to really garner a lot of enthusiasm during his events. and this morning i tracked about 14,000...
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obama and gov mitt romney get for a rematch. the pressure is on both candidates to find an edge. >> i am uma. live from the nation's capt cament starts right now. uma pemmaraju. >> over the next few days, president obama and governor romney will get deep in the debate prep for tuesday. obama looks to make up for the last debate performance romney looks to build on his momentum. karl cameron is traveling with the romney campaign and has more. >> we are live on the romney press bus in central ohio on the way to fort smith where governor romney will have a rally in a while. early this morning, he was taking part in the debate prep and he spent time sparring with his shadow boxers rob portman who plays the role of president obama . paul ryan is campaigning in ohio. big crowd and was aggressively going after the president on china policy. foreign policy will be a big part of the last debate. today paul ryan going after the president for not cracking down on china for the alleged currency manipulation and unfair trade practices. let's
obama and gov mitt romney get for a rematch. the pressure is on both candidates to find an edge. >> i am uma. live from the nation's capt cament starts right now. uma pemmaraju. >> over the next few days, president obama and governor romney will get deep in the debate prep for tuesday. obama looks to make up for the last debate performance romney looks to build on his momentum. karl cameron is traveling with the romney campaign and has more. >> we are live on the romney press...
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both campaigns agree with. this obama actually has the advantage in population in electoral votes even though romney has more states in that count. that leaves 14 states, nine of which are the battle grounds in which this campaign is basically being waged. that's where the appearances are. that's where the money is being spent. there are an additional five states, michigan is among them, pennsylvania, new mexico, arizona, where the sides don't agree that their foregone conclusions they're not really spending a great deal of resources. those nine states, they've been consistently those nine states over the course of the year. i think that's one of the things that's most interesting, it's been narrow and consistent throughout the year. >> so andy, this new report that mitt romney and the gop are really doubling and tripling their ad buys in several of the swing states with 24 days to go until the election, how much impact does all this ad money really have on voters? >> well, voters especially in those nine battl
both campaigns agree with. this obama actually has the advantage in population in electoral votes even though romney has more states in that count. that leaves 14 states, nine of which are the battle grounds in which this campaign is basically being waged. that's where the appearances are. that's where the money is being spent. there are an additional five states, michigan is among them, pennsylvania, new mexico, arizona, where the sides don't agree that their foregone conclusions they're not...
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>>reporter: professor cain think that is both the president and governor romney need to do a better job of articulating that vision and what happened in the vice-presidential debate just up the stake for the next presidential debate. in the newsroom, 7 news. >>> debate moderated by abc news reporter martha so what could she see that we could not see from home? >> i think one of the things about being at that table it's so intimate so when joe biden is smiling or when joe is raising his voice a bit it's really in your face. it was really in paul ryan face. they were watching the clock so carefully. the opening statements of 2 minutes with each question. they would always fill those 2 minutes exactly. they were both taking notes. this is what vice president biden wrote down he had no apology. egyptian people. aq meaning al qaeda bob gates former secretary of defense effective and then i don't know what those other 2 words were saying. >>reporter: interesting. behind the scenes martha on last night debate. big note about baseball. game 5 has just ended in the national league division play
>>reporter: professor cain think that is both the president and governor romney need to do a better job of articulating that vision and what happened in the vice-presidential debate just up the stake for the next presidential debate. in the newsroom, 7 news. >>> debate moderated by abc news reporter martha so what could she see that we could not see from home? >> i think one of the things about being at that table it's so intimate so when joe biden is smiling or when joe is...
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romney. start with jobs. he says 12 million jobs will be created in the next four years. as i keep telling you, that claim it ridiculous, considering the sluggish growth we're seeing right now and the new downward revision. but for the purposes of this exercise, i'll take him at his word and presume an historic surge in jobs lies ahead. let's talk about taxes next. i'm going to let governor romney explain this for himself. >> well, i've made it pretty clear that my principles are number one, simplify the code, number two, create incentives for small businesses and large businesses to grow. number three, don't reduce the burden on high-income taxpayers. and number four, remove the burden somewhat from middle income people. >> now, you can get all that done in four years we'll have a bran new tax code by 2016. again, it's bold. everybody talks about doing it but nobody's done it really since reagan. finally let's take a look at the deficit. romney is planning to cut a lot more than funding to b
romney. start with jobs. he says 12 million jobs will be created in the next four years. as i keep telling you, that claim it ridiculous, considering the sluggish growth we're seeing right now and the new downward revision. but for the purposes of this exercise, i'll take him at his word and presume an historic surge in jobs lies ahead. let's talk about taxes next. i'm going to let governor romney explain this for himself. >> well, i've made it pretty clear that my principles are number...
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well both sides support the crippling sanctions and both sides are open to the use of military course of the sanctions don't work i would guess that if you force me to choose i would say that obama mr sorry romney administration more likely go to war in large part because of. some of the prominent new conservatives who are so instrumental in the bush administration and going to war for iraq are among a rummy used closest advisers at the same time the u.s. military the pentagon the professionals the generals have also made it clear there really is not a military solution to the crisis with iraq indeed this is the one thing that prevented the bush administration from one. original post to attack the country and he did bring up iraq i know that in foreign policy magazine it actually asked the question is iraq a proxy to iran we did go into iraq oh we want to take out saddam hussein but the blowback that you could say is happening right now in iraq is that saddam hussein was actually the number one opponent or one of the number one opponents of iran and they actually did a really good job
well both sides support the crippling sanctions and both sides are open to the use of military course of the sanctions don't work i would guess that if you force me to choose i would say that obama mr sorry romney administration more likely go to war in large part because of. some of the prominent new conservatives who are so instrumental in the bush administration and going to war for iraq are among a rummy used closest advisers at the same time the u.s. military the pentagon the professionals...
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on both sides. look, last week, even during the presidential debate between president obama and mitt romney, the obama campaign tried to push on twitter the idea that mitt romney was being inappropriately testy. they tried so hard to push the testy mitt idea. they tried so hard to make that into a thing that people should feel about that debate. >> he got testy about it. he got testy about being on defense. i think that came across to the american people. >> a testy governor romney who spent the entire time on defense. >> i think for some folks at home it probably came across a little testy. >> yeah, no. nice try. i mean, maybe mitt romney was testy, at the presidential debate, and maybe joe biden did laugh in paul ryan's face all night at the vice presidential debate. but that is in part because these guys, mitt romney and joe biden, were pumped and they were pumped because they were obviously winning their debates. and complaining about that does not change that. but the other person who was pumpe
on both sides. look, last week, even during the presidential debate between president obama and mitt romney, the obama campaign tried to push on twitter the idea that mitt romney was being inappropriately testy. they tried so hard to push the testy mitt idea. they tried so hard to make that into a thing that people should feel about that debate. >> he got testy about it. he got testy about being on defense. i think that came across to the american people. >> a testy governor romney...
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that's the kind of moment that both the president and governor romney are looking for in these debates, to show they can actually connect with the voters in the audience that night. >> how nervous do candidates get? i don't need any names but before a debate. they've done this before, they've obviously given a ton of speeches, but you know, they are human beings. how nervous do they get? >> we forget that sometimes. they are human, and they do get very nervous. some of them have different rituals or things they do to try to relieve that nervousness. prepping a candidate for a debate is really about prepping them in three areas. it's making sure they know the things they need to know. it's making sure you have a strategy going into the debate, in terms of message that you're going to advance and how you're going to execute advancing that message, what attacks you will use, but the final and probably most important thing is having them mentally prepared. making sure that they're ready to go out and stand under those lights and execute that strategy. >> i just find it fascinating stuff. i
that's the kind of moment that both the president and governor romney are looking for in these debates, to show they can actually connect with the voters in the audience that night. >> how nervous do candidates get? i don't need any names but before a debate. they've done this before, they've obviously given a ton of speeches, but you know, they are human beings. how nervous do they get? >> we forget that sometimes. they are human, and they do get very nervous. some of them have...
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Oct 13, 2012
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also, breaking news out of wisconsin, the romney campaign is taking the state to court. why do they say wisconsin is vilathe the rights of our military members isn't latest, coming up so anyway, i've been to a lot of places. you know, i've helped a lot of people save a lot of money. but today...( sfx: loud noise of large metal object hitting the ground) things have been a little strange. (sfx: sound of piano smashing) roadrunner: meep meep. meep meep? (sfx: loud thud sound) what a strange...